clearing grandads name

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clearing grandads name

Post  danbradbury on Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:49 pm

Hi there,

I'm just after some advise. Years ago my grandad was convicted of cruelty to animals. He had 6 cows taken from a herd of around 40, apparently it was only them six that were abused even though they ran together. Head no warning notice, the six that were taken from a beef suckler herd were dairy cows so obviously did not carry as much weights the others. They tried to get £30,000 out of him and then he could have the cows back even though he had apparently treated them cruely. He had no money so could in no way pay this. So he had to let the cows go probably to slaughter even though they were good, productive animals. He carried on with his other cattle, he had horses, cats,dogs, goats,pigs and poultry and even though he was supposed to have been cruel to animals the RSPCA never bothered him again.

To my point, my grandad past away last week. I found all the paperwork from this case when going through his stuff. Me and the family are going to try to appeal this case and clear my grandads name at it was a massive injustice, a complete shambles of a case and a big dent in my grandads pride. I just wondered if anyone had any contacts with this kind of thing or could help in any way. The case was over10 years ago so it will be difficult but I feel it is a cause worth pursuing.

Thanks,dan

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Re: clearing grandads name

Post  Admin on Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:08 pm

Dan.
I`m sorry to hear about your case and you have to proceed with it for your grandad.
My advise would be to contact the SHG with your case. You have some paperwork to back you up. Details for the SHG are stickied at the top of the first page. Can i ask how he was convicted if there was no court case?
In effect, the RSPCA stole his livestock.
Please keep in contact with us.
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Prospect of Appeal

Post  millie1* on Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:39 am

Hi there, the TIME LIMIT for any appeal is 28 days from the date of conviction so I believe you would struggle to get any sort of hearing in Court. Also if our Grandad pleaded guilty at the time then there would be no direct line of appeal against his conviction. If he pleaded NOT Guilty then more chance but I would say very very slim. SHG might be able to offer some sort of advice since his conviction was on the old Animal Act not the Animal Welfare Act 2006 and therefore the charges and pleas may be something completely different to what we have o deal with today. Look them up and give them a call - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think the web page is. Wouldnt hold out much hope though. Let us know what you find out

Regards
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Re: clearing grandads name

Post  Admin on Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:31 pm

millie1* wrote:Hi there, the TIME LIMIT for any appeal is 28 days from the date of conviction so I believe you would struggle to get any sort of hearing in Court. Also if our Grandad pleaded guilty at the time then there would be no direct line of appeal against his conviction. If he pleaded NOT Guilty then more chance but I would say very very slim. SHG might be able to offer some sort of advice since his conviction was on the old Animal Act not the Animal Welfare Act 2006 and therefore the charges and pleas may be something completely different to what we have o deal with today. Look them up and give them a call - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think the web page is. Wouldnt hold out much hope though. Let us know what you find out

Regards
Obviously you are more in the know than i am.
Surely to be guilty there has to be a court case?
Where did the money go from the sale/slaughter of the mentioned cows? surely it wasn`t for the RSPCA to "pocket"?
A well informed reply though. Very Happy
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Where did the money for the six cows go?

Post  Trilby Bee on Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:11 pm

Well, according to Dan, they wanted £30k (???) for the six dairy cows. That was a huge sum ten years ago. They didn't get it (of course) so they probably said the money for the carcasses was a part-payment towards the cost of the case (or did grandfather pay for that?) and the upkeep of the cows until they killed them. The whole thing sounds very suss to me...give us the money and you can have your cows back...but of course we all know they are very motivated by money.

What a story. And that was BEFORE they had the AWA 2006 since when they have got worse. God help us all.
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update

Post  danbradbury on Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:04 pm

hi guys,
thanks for the replies.

firstly ive found a lot of paperwork relating to this case in grandads stuff, i now have all the information as i was only 8 at the time this happened. it seems it was 15k they wanted from him which still is a fair amount. he recieved nothing from the cows, i assume these went as cull cows and also assume the RSPCA kept the money from that and it was actually 4 cows not 6.

Secondly i found all they had to base the case on was a low body condtion score. there has recently been a report insisting body condition scoring should not be used in cases like this as it is not reliable in proving any kind of cruelty. Other factors looked at including feet, rumen movement,coat condtion etc were all good. Part of their case was making the point the body condition score improved after they took them but this was probably due to the fact the two calves on each cow having to be weaned off as the RSPCA took the cows away so of course they will put on weight with no calves at foot. The calves were all said to be very healthy.

Grandad pleaded not guilty because he was not and as far as i can see he never put an appeal in probably becuase he didnt want to go through it all again.

Any more thoughts on this would be much appreciated. We are already talking to the SHG so thanks for that.

dan


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Update from Dan

Post  Trilby Bee on Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:59 pm

Well, Dan, they use the body condition scoring with horses too, for what it's worth. What really shocked me was a few years before the RSPCA stole my horse, the (then) ILPH, now World Horse Welfare, came out to my yard to see my aged Thoroughbred mare and a 15 hand cob who had been intermittently lame, but was on Bute (Phenyl Butazone) and was not being ridden and in fact was in a small pen sectioned off in a corner of the field so she could not run around. So two complaints, 1) that there was a lame horse and 2) that there was an elderly TB mare who was skinny and presumably not being fed. It was early Spring, not much grass coming thro and her teeth were not marvellous due to her age. WHW field officer said she was fine, no problems, a bit u/weight but would pick up as soon as grass appeared in a few weeks, eating well and looked fit and happy. He then pointed to two rather fat native ponies and said (quote) "They are much too fat, they are the ones who should be reported as they are heading for laminitis if they are as fat as that at this time of year". Having said that he did not bother to find out who the owners were and did nothing to advise them about putting their horses on a diet. But they and the RSPCA will take pictures of a skinny horse and use it to get donations, then show a picture of the same horse grossly overweight after a few months with them and say aren't we the best thing that ever happened in the horse world. Then of course they kill it.

How amazing that Grandad kept all the paperwork, maybe he thought that one day he would try to clear his name. £15k was a lot of money back then. I am not sure how long courts and solicitors legally have to keep case details. I thought it was about ten years. Do you know who his solicitors were? Some areas have a legal surgery where you can go and get free legal advice, a bit like Citizens' Advice Bureau but you actually get to speak to a qualified solicitor rather than a volunteer (I'm not knocking CAB as I think they are excellent, but they do not have legal training). Or what if you went to the court where it took place and speak to the legal advisor? I still cannot work out how they can say if he paid £15k he could have them back. Either they were cruelty cases or they were not. I know money talks, but...? And all the other animals fine...

If all else fails, like I said, I would get it in the papers...especially since you have all the paperwork to work from so you don't make any mistakes with dates and names etc.

Let us know what advice you get from the SHG. Good luck Dan.
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