Please help advice needed

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Please help advice needed

Post  Woof45 on Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:32 pm

I really don't know what to do. I have spoken to solicitors etc for advice on what I can do. I have a solicitor at the moment who sounds brilliant but my case is nearing the time it is going to be heard in crown court.
I was convicted for breaching 6 charges unere they AWA.
One was locking two dogs on a flight of stairs that I simply didn't do.
Depriving two dogs of food.
One for a month the other for a week.
General lack cleanliness under sect 4
And finally depriving the dogs of water for a period of 12 hours.

It's just nothing in my case appears to be simmilar to what normally happens in these cases.
Firstly the police dealt with my case, they refused to get the RSPCA involved. I had numerous visits from police and RSPCA previously and they decided that all was fine.
I have a police officer willing to attend court with me to say she knows how well I always looked after my dogs.
The reality is there were a lot of dogs in the house.
The prosecution argued that a third of the dogs were underweight.
They used the tacc score to rate the dogs condition.

2 dogs scored 4/5 (very underweight) I do not disagree they were underweight but I do disagree that I caused this.
I had contacted my vet in regards to them (not taken them to see him)
He advised feeding the dogs up and worming  one of them as she had worms. Regardless both started putting on weight slowly by surely.
Another dog had hip dysplasia he was slightly underweight (my vet told me to keep him underweight to minimise the strain on his hips)
Another was previously diagnosed as being emaciated by my vet. The police get deemed him to now just be underweight. My vet essentially scored him at 5(emaciated) when police took him he scored 3.
In court the prosecution initially deemed all the dogs had poor coat and skin conditions (4 on Tacc scale)
This was subsequently changed and the expert dog officer admitted making 8 typos in his statement and those dogs in fact had ideal coat and skin conditions.
I never recieved photos or videos the prosecution would use in court but was allowed to view the video the morning of my trial.
There was no vet present at the raid and some all the dogs bar 8 were not seen by a vet until 5 days after being taken.
Please can anybody with experience advise? I am fond of my solicitor but I do not want to rely entirely on him to construct my case. So if anybody has any suggestions or simmilar I would very much like to hear them.
I should add that the prosecution admitted making 8 typos in his lay examination concluding 8 of the dogs had ideal coat and skin conditions but the rest were poor.
They claim there were no leads for the dogs and some had long nails (I disagree the nails caused any suffering but were in need of a trim) this was evidence enough for them the dogs were not being walked.
It now transpired according to the tacc scale they used all dogs were ideal body condition or slightly overweight except for 5 dogs.

Woof45

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Need help.

Post  moonstone on Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:45 pm

Hi Woof Smile The advice I can give you would be to get your vet on board with your case Smile Police/rspca are NOT vets Crying or Very sad A vet ranks above any other when it comes to prosecutions Smile you say that your vet has been giving treatment to your dogs so he will have documentation that should be produced in court to help your case Smile The fact that the dogs have been seen and treated by your vet should prove that you have not neglected your animals but that they have been receiving vet care Smile
Speak to your vet and ask him to go to court with you (you may have to pay for this) but with his records of your visits and the treatment he has been giving must surely go in your favour Smile
Animals with health conditions are always an easy targets for prosecution Evil or Very Mad yes they may look bad but that doesn't mean that they are being neglected..hope you in your case.

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Re: Please help advice needed

Post  Woof45 on Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:10 pm

Thank you very much for your response. Yes I do plan on calling my vet as a witness at court.
I was found guilty of confining two dogs on a flight of stairs when somebody else had admitted to doing this.
Depriving dogs of water for 12 hours, this is illogical as I was not ev n present at the house for those 12 hours somebody else was. Furthermore no dogs were dehydrated.
Most dogs scored a 2 on thetacc scale as their nails needed a trim, long nails was sufficient indication that the dogs had not been exercised regardless of having pictures of my dogs being exercised on grass.
I really need to know what the likelihood of winning this case on technicalities is.
My arguments are:
1 no vet was present to authorise the taking of the dogs.
2 the warrant was issued to search for Pitbull type dogs though an environmental health officer accompanied the police on the raid. (This implies they had ulterior motives other than the warrant.
3. Despite being invited on the warrant no RSPCA attended. The officer can be heard on his video stating that "the RSPCA wouldn't take these dogs.
4. The police video still has not been disclosed despite this now being the appeal...
5. the police lied about my interview and have not provided a tape.
6. All dogs bar some were not viewed by a forensic vet until 5 days after being removed.
7. Two cats were left behind despite all animals needing to be taken on welfare grounds.
8. Most officers believed there were only two cats though others noticed the 4 there in reality was.
9. The police have given evidence of dogs having no water that directly contradicts their own photos.
10. The behaviourist that decided I was guilty of causing mental suffering to the dogs had not even met them or carried out any tests on the dogs. She decided based upon the officers photos and statements.

Can anyone possibly give me any case law examples where cases were won on these technicalities?
Also can anyone offer me any honest opinions as to my possibility of winning this case?

Thank you again!!!

Woof45

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Help needed!

Post  moonstone on Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:14 pm

Hi Woof45 Very Happy I would suggest that you contact SHG (self help group) they have expert legal advice and may be ble to send someone to court with you Smile
It seems that the real reason that your dogs have been taken is that they feel that they are "of type" you havn't mentioned what breed the dogs are so I assume that they are pit bull type (proberly Staffie crosses)which may resemble ban breeds Crying or Very sad
Does your solicitor have knowledge of these animal welfare cases? if not then I would look for one who does Smile
The police/rspca work together although you say that rspca are not interested in your case..they may be providing guidelines for the police to work with Evil or Very Mad
Yes they fabricate evidence and they lie to get the result they want so do be very careful how you answer any questions as they will try to twist it to suit them Evil or Very Mad you do not have to answer you can just reply "no comment"
I hope you have some luck with SHG I know they are very busy so they may not reply straight away but keep trying Smile

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Re: Please help advice needed

Post  Woof45 on Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:47 pm

Hi again Moonstone,
I have spoken with the SHG already at some length. I'm trying to get more opinions and advice in case there is a suggestion or comment that I missed. I would rather have too much advice and too many avenues to explore than too few.
The raid was supposedly due to me having types. I had 3-4 dogs the police claim resembled types. The police took all the dogs in the house however on welfare grounds.
The police laid the charges for pit-types too late hence the judge ruled that he could not charge as it was a summary offence and out of time.
Yes my solicitor is experienced in AWA cases.
The police would not get the RSPCA involved I have a good relationship with the RSPCA who visited my dogs numerous times previously.
The police also checked my dogs welfare previously which they could not find any fault with.
The main expert in my case is a status dogs officer who is an ex-RSPCA chief inspector.
If I can prove the police have lied about certain points in court do I stand a chance of winning my case?
I have already had a long interview in the presence of a solicitor who advised I answer questions. The interview resulted in the police main expert changing his lay examination results he allegedly did on the day to reflect my answers.
He referred to all dogs having a poor coat and skin condition initially then converted his findings to say that 8 typos were made and in fact 8 dogs had ideal coat and skin conditions...

Woof45

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Help Needed

Post  Trilby Bee on Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:13 am

Hello Woof and a belated welcome to the site...everything is very quiet right now and I think RSPCA are not publicising their devious actions so much as they know the public is pi**ed off with them and as a result of that they are losing donations.

It's a strange case indeed, but as moonstone said, if the police are so involved it certainly sounds as tho' it's the ''type'' that is the problem, up to a point. I think you said you get on OK with RSPCA...but do PLEASE do yourself a favour and don't ever trust them as they are lying and devious. How come you got on well with them...the fact that they turned up at your place should have got alarm bells ringing to be honest. And again, as moonstone advised, you need a solicitor who deals exclusively with RSPCA/Animal Welfare Act (2006)  cases. The Animal Welfare Act (2006) is a long and extremely tortuous document and your solicitor needs to be familiar with most of it, especially if they are charging you on six counts...that is if it is in fact RSPCA who have brought the cased. May I ask, please, if you don't mind, who exactly is taking you to Court...it reads to me as tho' it is the Police as you say someone said ''RSPCA won't take them''. So where are your dogs at present? With the Police...or? Either way you need a solicitor conversant with the AWA (2006) and the two which come to mind (both here in SE England  as far as I Know) are Nigel Weller and Sara-Lise Howe. If they are not in the right area for you, then they will be able to direct you to someone who is.

TACC scoring is different from the scores they use for horses...horses are ''emaciated'' at score one but the score goes up to (I believe) eight which is obese. Five or six is generally considered a healthy weight. The thing that is so ridiculous with the horse scoring is that any sensible horse vet will tell you that in a horse, a skinny is better than a fatty...yet you never hear of anyone being taken to court because their horse is overweight...but if it's skinny they are like flies round a turd. World Horse Welfare Rep came to my yard, said my thin mare was fine, he would not worry about her, then pointed to two fat ponies and said they were obese and would have problems if the owners did not get the weight off them. Despite saying that, he did NOTHING to check that the owners got their weight down; he never came back, he never called the Gestapo. But he came back when someone told him about a skinny gelding and HE called the RSPCA to it. Meanwhile the two unhealthy fat ponies got fatter and fatter.
Also where did they get the info that the dogs were without water, without food, locked on a stairway etc? There is, of course, a certain type of person who gets a satisfaction from sh*t-stirring.
I take it you know to have little or no money to pay any costs/fines etc...nothing in your name at all.

PS: So the ex-RSPCA chief inspector who is the ''expert''...what is he saying exactly? And why is he no longer with the RSPCA? Is he retired and working on a consultancy basis for the Police? Lord, Woof, your case is certainly complicated. I will think more on your case and get back to you. But certainly if the Police are involved to such a degree it's to do with the type I'd guess. Evil or Very Mad
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Re: Please help advice needed

Post  Woof45 on Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:36 am

Hi Trilly Bee,
Thank you for the response. I will try to answer some of the questions you asked.

Thank you for the welcome. I just wish my presence here was a result of not quite so dire circumstances. I am aware the of the reality of the RSPCA and have always had a very negative view of them. I am aware that hat they are corrupt and dangerous. I used to get dogs from the RSPCA to rehome.
I am reluctant to go into any details about the reality of just HOW corrupt the RSPCA is until my case is concluded. At that point I will go into details about what I know and some of the "offers" I was given by them. Though currently I do not wish to have 2 organisations of people out to ensure I lose my dogs...
I got on well with them because they never took my dogs. They were likely too busy persecuting some poor old lady instead of me...
I am currenly using Paul Watson Solicitor for my case. At the mags I was using Clive Reese.

The Police are taking me to court NOT the RSPCA. I have no idea at all where the dogs are as the police have told me nothing at all.
The Taff scoring for dogs is
1 ideal
2 lean
3 underweight
4 poor
5 emaciated

They also said that some of the dogs were over-weight. The interesting thing is I have had multiple dealings with a the RSPCA and police. The police say that the RSPCA have no knowledge of this. I have had skinny come to me skinny and the dogs then put on weight in my care.

When they raided that's where they saw the dogs located, some dogs had dirty water. Once the police submitted the video and statements to a vet and behaviorist they concluded the length of time the animals had been "suffering and exposed to the conditions for.
I was fined and made to pay costs of just over 2000 in all. Despite being on JSA at the time.
The ex-RSPCA officer and voluntary status dogs unit officer is retired RSPCA. Though he is known to have been convicted in court previously for running over a pro-hunt demonstrator.
It is all very strange indeed. I'm a little confused by it all.

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