I'm being investigated by the RSPCA.....Help??

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Re: I'm being investigated by the RSPCA.....Help??

Post  Admin on Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:46 pm

Welcome to our forum.
Firstly, you are not in a mess with the RSPCA. The inspector has no legal powers so canot caution you, nor do you have to answer their questions. They did not have any rights to enter the property so in effect they were trespassing.
Do you know who reported you?
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I'm Being Investigated By The RSPCA....Help??

Post  Trilby Bee on Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:13 pm

Firstly, RichP, hope you got my PM on the other site and would repeat here all I said there, and reiterate what moonmstone said to you on the other site and Admin has said here on this site.
It strikes me that this visit was PREMEDITATED; RSPCA does not turn up with a vet and a police officer on their first visit (both of whom just happened to be hanging around doing nowt? Police are supposed to be so understaffed now, or so I thought). They came intending to remove a LIVE horse/pony. No...I have to think the RSPCA officer had been before and seen the mare. How did they get in? How would they have got the horse out if the gate was locked? And yes, they were trespassing. You should not have had to answer questions without a caution.
What is now fascinating me is this...and it could have happened in my case when they stole my mare, but didn't. If push comes to shove, who will the vet side with? I assume when the vet was called out, she did not know who the owner of the horse was. In my case, the vet who came with the RSPCA was a shyster who did, in fact, see other horses in my yard. He was known to be a greedy sod. But he COULD have been my vet...he was two miles away only.
There is bound to be a division of loyalties in your case as this vet knows you but is being paid by the RSPCA on this occasion. Why do you suppose the RSPCA are having a post-mortem done? It will cost a fortune...it is not being done out of professional interest, believe me. SO there will be a) the cost of transporting the carcass to the place the PM is being done, b) the cost of the post mortem and c) the cost of then disposing of the carcass. When my young cat had to be pts owing to the vets not knowing what was wrong with him (despite £2500 insurance being spent) they did a post mortem for their own satisfaction and so they paid for it (glad they did as it was inconclusive). Do you know where the pm is being done? RSPCA tends to use the RVC which is unbelievably expensive. They will, of course, be wanting to whop that on your bill.
So RichP, really sorry you lost your mare...do you know who called them in the first place? But be on your guard, get hold of SHG and contact Nigel Weller at the first sign of trouble. These are people who are happy to spend £300k on taking the Heythrop to court...it's not their money so why should they care??
Please keep us informed...
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I am being investigated by rspca-help

Post  moonstone on Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:08 pm

Hello Richp and welcome to the forum Smile so sorry to hear about your mare Crying or Very sad echoing what others have said you do not have to go to an interview under caution as rspca have no powers so therefore they cannot force you to go for an interview if you do not wish to Smile
Contact your vet and get him to demand your mare's body back,they had no right to take her nor to be in the field with her before you got there No if they do a PM then you will be made to pay for this and no doubt they are preparing a case against you for prosecution No they are desperate for funding and you are an "easy target"they only like to prosecute those who care for their animals leaving the real cruelty cases No make sure that you have legal representation and that the solicitor is one who is exeprienced in dealing with rspca.
It may be a good idea to get your own PM done so that you will be able to answer any questions that they will ask you Smile

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Re: I'm being investigated by the RSPCA.....Help??

Post  RichP on Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:06 pm

Thanks for the replies and PMs everyone

I know who called the RSPCA, it was one of my liveries, the whole family was waiting there for me when I rushed back from work after I got the call, it was like a witch hunt!

It was the first visit the RSPCA had made, I had been treating the mare with a 5 day wormer as she had lost a bit of condition, she was living out with my other mares but I decided to bring her in and let her have a few days in while I wormed her. First thing I do if they look a bit 'off' is worm them with a five day Panacur, especially in the wet weather when red worm is rife!

My vet is siding with me, she has given a report on my other horses being in good condition and I have had a lengthy off the record chat with her.

I made the decision to have the mare PTS as she had collapsed and my vet advised it...I think her main worry was if we got her to her feet the RSPCA would take her away alive and then start the whole very expensive rehabilitation regime!

Her body was taken to a university hospital for the PM, but shw will be well disposed of now as it was two weeks ago.

The mares body was taken away about an hour after the police officer left, I was not given any paperwork, not asked to sign her over, so legally if the RSPCA have no legal powers to seize an animal does that mean they have effectively stolen her body as the police officer wasn't present?

I am struggling to get hold of the SHG by telephone so have emailed them, I will attend an interview but will only do so with an experienced solicitor!

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Re: I'm being investigated by the RSPCA.....Help??

Post  Admin on Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:40 pm

Rich. There are a few things which are suspect but a good point is that your vet is (hopefuly) on your side.
Keep phoning the SHG, we would be very interested in their opinion(s).
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I'm Being Investigated By The RSPCA....Help??

Post  Trilby Bee on Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:34 am

Hi again Rich

I am glad to hear your vet is being supportive, that will be a massive help. You are quite right in giving the Five Day Panacur Guard at this time of year and especially with the wet weather we have had.
As Admin said, one or two things are a bit suss...the RSPCA is doing a post mortem for a reason, and bet your life it is, as moonstone suggested, to get evidence against you for a case. They are not doing it so they can ring and let you know what was wrong with her. When an animal dies unexpectedly, or has to be euthanised, like yours, one always would like to know what was wrong, but actually having a pm done is a NO NO as the cost is too high. Unless you have millions in the bank donated by a gullible public which should be spent on real animal welfare but actually is not. So they may well find out what was wrong with your mare...so what? It will not help her now. It will only help the RSPCA. As I said, when my young cat was ill, the vets themselves asked if they could do a post mortem; that was purely on a professional level, as they had no idea what was wrong and they thought doing a pm would give results and possibly help them with future cases. In the event, it did not, but it was done at THEIR expense for THEIR professional benefit as vets, and with your mare that is not the case. Knowing what was wrong with your mare will not help any future animals RSPCA comes in contact with. Did your vet suggest anything at all that she thought might have happened to the mare?

You sound as tho you know not to speak to them if they return unexpectedly, which they may do. Say nothing to them if you are by yourself, and even with a wwitness, say as little as possible.

It does not surprise me one bit that it was one of your liveries who called them in...exactly the same happened to me. People I had done so much for and not asked for payment. I used to feed their two horses for nothing when they went away, never asked them to return the favour, never asked for money. Before that, they used to PAY another of my liveries £10 a day just to put out hay in their paddock. But I took in a livery that they all hated as she was too working class for their snobbish tastes and, as I would not get rid of her, they did this, knowing that if they got rid of my old mare that I would not keep the yard as it was 1000 miles travel every month. You wonder what is wrong with some people. Hope you kick them out of the yard.

Keep trying the SHG - they are probably all volunteers doing it in their spare time. Let us know how you get on, glad your vet is decent, having her on your side will be such a help. Smile
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Re: I'm being investigated by the RSPCA.....Help??

Post  jingsy on Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:00 pm

RichP.
As far as i am aware if the RSPCA enter your premises without your permission you can have them arrested for trespass and the police officer has no choice but to arrest them.
I hope being in contact with the forum has set your mind at ease a little. As said though .. keep trying the SHG.

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Trespassing

Post  Trilby Bee on Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:17 pm

The thing is tho, they find out when you are not there and sneak in like Ninjas from the shadows. I am sure Jingsy is right about the trespassing, and any Police Officer in attendance is meant to have a Court Order/warrant which is stamped and signed. Also, as far as I know, it is the Police Officer who is meant to leave a notice as technically he is the one who 'seizes' the animal and then hands it to the RSPCA and their tender mercy. Also Rich, meant to mention, they took photos of my mare in one of their fields and you could see the ragwort in it!! FULL!!! I thought there was a law concerning how much ragwort you were allowed to have in a field (especially where there are horses). Question
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Re: I'm being investigated by the RSPCA.....Help??

Post  Admin on Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:21 pm

I have received a pm from Rich asking that whilst he is seeking legal advice can i remove his origional post from the forum.
It will be put back only when Rich requests that it goes back.
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Post by Rich

Post  Trilby Bee on Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:16 pm

My guess is that he got thro to SHG and took their advice...maybe he will keep us informed by PM. I hope so.
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Re: I'm being investigated by the RSPCA.....Help??

Post  Admin on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:56 pm

Trilby Bee wrote:My guess is that he got thro to SHG and took their advice...maybe he will keep us informed by PM. I hope so.
Ditto.
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Post Mortem Results

Post  millie1* on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:23 am

Hello havent read the whole thread as only just been prodded by Trilbey of the existence of this enquiry.

With regard PM results, they ware normally available within a week - they will not keep a large carcass of a horse on ice - it will be done within 24/48 hours of taking and the only other delay would be toxicolgy reports - say a week? If they havent comne back they dont have to tell you by the way if they are paying for it - either they turned up nothing and they will not use it in their case, or they did find something - you MUST get your solicitor to request the results as a matter of urgency - it might affect you decision on plea or formal caution etc....... If they refuse to send the results and have not kept any samples for re-testing your soliciots may have a strong case for something called Abuse of Process (Ive read many court decisions on this aspect regarding vets and tesing of sick and dying animals) They have to keep samples for any future inedpendant forensic testing as requested by YOU, in YOUR defence. If they have not kept the samples or allow you access to them there are failings in Section 78 Police and Criminal Evidence (look it up on Google) and also within the Animal Welfare Act itself - sorry cant remember the section right now. Judges take very dim view of failure to process the law correctly - if you plead not guilty and go to Magistrates - you will almost certainly be convicted (statistically) however, if you believe you are not guilty you MUST appeal within 21 days of this verdict to go to Croan Court - here you will be under a Judge with legal training, not a bunch of the general public who like to weild power they have had not training in. The Judge is far more likely to take note of failures in the law rather than the emotion of the subject.

If it is a horse case your best bet is to approach Nigel Weller as your representative, you need a specialist in this field who has plently of experience, not you average local guy who although you might be able to pop in and see regularly, simply hasnt got a clue (found out to my cost and would not go doen this route again!)

If interested PM me and I will let you know all I do - the other major contributors to this site are familiar with my knowledge and backbone when it comes to RSPCA - got one case going to Europe and 1 to High Court so getting to know the ropes all too well (after over 40 years of horse ownership and National Show champions!!) - clearly I dont know how to look after horses!!!
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